The B Team Podcast
Talking all things Business, Bentonville, and Bourbon. Hosted by Josh Saffran, Matt Marrs, and Rob Nelson. New episodes every Thursday!
The B Team Podcast
Ep. 63 - Inside the World of Vintage Decanter Bourbon - Part 1
Take a sip of liquid history as the B-Team dives deep into the forgotten world of vintage bourbon with special guest Stephen Mansfield (Instagram: @DustyWhiskeyHunter). What started as a casual conversation quickly transforms into a fascinating exploration of America's whiskey past through rare "dusties" – bourbon produced primarily before the 1960s that tastes remarkably different from modern spirits.
Stephen guides us through the post-Prohibition era when distilleries faced a surprising problem: too much aged bourbon and not enough buyers. As American drinkers shifted to vodka and clear spirits in the 50s and 60s, bourbon makers created elaborate decorative decanters – from chess pieces to figurines – marketed as collectibles rather than for their contents. Today, these forgotten vessels often contain liquid treasures that reveal how dramatically bourbon production has changed.
The highlight comes when Stephen shares his recent discovery of over 1,000 vintage decanters in an Arkansas collector's basement – six shelves high around every wall. As we sample an 8-year Lionstone and 10-year Old Crow from his collection, the differences from modern bourbon become immediately apparent: deeper mahogany colors, pronounced leather and tobacco notes, more minerality, and complex wood sugars that create unique tasting experiences.
But what exactly makes these dusties so distinctive? Stephen explains three key differences: less filtered water with natural minerals, barrels made from older trees with tighter growth rings, and proprietary yeast strains that distilleries once kept under lock and key. Together, these practices created bourbons with depth and character that modern production methods – focused on efficiency rather than maximizing flavor – simply can't replicate.
Whether you're a bourbon enthusiast, history buff, or simply curious about America's distilling heritage, this episode offers a rare glimpse into flavors and production methods largely lost to time. Subscribe to the B-Team Podcast and join us each week as we explore all things Bentonville, business, and bourbon!
Welcome to the B-Team Podcast. I am your host, josh Saffron, with my co-host, matt Morris and our permanent guest Rob Nelson. We're here every week to talk to you about all things Bentonville, bourbon and business the B-Team Podcast Be here. Welcome to the B-Team Podcast. I'm your host, josh Saffron, with my co-host, matt Mars, and no permanent guests today because, well, we have ones here. Well, I love how you and your lady friend wore the same matching green attire. Yeah, I mean, what's her name? Bobina?
Speaker 2:Well, her name's. I don't know what her name is. Is there a?
Speaker 1:label on the back.
Speaker 2:Wait, wait, wait. She's the dance hall girl, the dance hall girl.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there you go Well, Gary's going to be a little jealous.
Speaker 2:Do whatever you want.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, we're here all Thursdays for things Bentonville, business and bourbon. And typically when we use the term dusty, like my wife talks about, like hey, you're the dusty old husband that I married. This is a different version of dusty today and I learned this terminology from our friend Steven Mansfield. Thank you for coming in today, thank you for having me, glad to be here Like I have never heard of and seen a dusty before. And then I started spending some time with Steven and the Dusty definition is Basically it's anything that's over 20 years old.
Speaker 2:But in my vernacular generally they've fallen from liquor or whiskey produced prior to the 60s. Stuff that's in the 70s are sort of dusty. But we're getting more into modern times, I guess 90s, because it all changed in that era too. It did, it did the way it was produced, the flavors, the quality very different. Yeah, the oaks especially. Yeah, wood, wood. If you know anything about bourbon, um, the cast, the wood that's used produces the bulk of the flavor that's in the whiskey well, that's my first learning, because we started having it recently.
Speaker 1:Through you, the like, the depth of the color of the new stuff versus the dusty stuff.
Speaker 2:That a lot depends on the age, for example. This Start right away. No, we'll get into this, okay, so this is pretty dark.
Speaker 1:That's a 10-year age, but that to me looks like Dr Pepper or Coca-Cola with no fizz. It's a 10-year age, but that to me looks like Dr Pepper or Coca-Cola with no fizz. Like it's that dark yeah.
Speaker 2:Versus look this one here. I mean you can see the difference in color. Yeah, right, yeah, this is 8, so it's less. This is 10 and maybe 12. So a lot of it has to do with how long it's been in the wood and also the warehouse. And the warehouse, yes, the temperatures how much the temperatures vary, how high it is in the rickhouse, how low. So there's a lot of variables.
Speaker 1:But you collect drink like you morphed away from the allocated current stuff and this is sort of your hobby.
Speaker 2:It's my hobby and it's also what I prefer to drink. No, why? Okay, so if you go into, let me take you back to Prohibition. Okay, you're in the US. No, I was not born during Prohibition. No, I was actually pre-Prohibition. Before Prohibition we had probably 100 to 200 distilleries in Kentucky and over 1,000 in this country. Most of them were up in Maryland and Pennsylvania. Those distilleries are small farm distilleries. They grew rye. It grew really well and they made a lot of rye. Kentucky and Tennessee have predominantly been bourbon production and once prohibition came in it basically decimated the industry. Those 1,000 to 1,500 distilleries that we had really got down to single digits and during that time you could buy whiskey, buy bourbon if you had a prescription. Pretty much everybody was sick.
Speaker 2:And they could buy a half pint I think it was one half pint a week or one pint a week, I'm sorry and you had a prescription label on the back of the bottle. They were all 100 proof. They were all in bonded warehouses so it was bonded 100 proof whiskey, really high quality, to the extent that they were left over. Most of the distilleries at the time had bought up production that was made in the early years before that and after about 13 years, when Probris was repealed, the market started up again. But they really didn't have any product okay, because everything was sold as medicinal. So some distilleries started up again and this takes a long time, unlike vodka, which you can distill and sell probably pretty close to the same day you just put in a bottle.
Speaker 2:Bourbon requires aging, so at least four years in most for decent bourbon. Four years it actually doesn't have to be, but decent ones are stored for four years, some six, some eight or more, and so there was a time when there was little production. So the distilleries really ramped up production a lot. But we went through a thing in the 50s and 60s, if you recall Johnny Carson, celebrities started drinking vodka. Sean Connery came out as James Bond and he had his martinis, and so the cool people started moving to white or clear distilled spirits and the bourbon distilleries were still making tons of bourbon, expecting everything to pick up again, but they weren't able to sell. So we have what we call the glut period, and the glut period is those years from, call it, the late 50s, early 60s, up through 70s and 80s, where they had way more whiskey than they knew what to do with and they had to sell it because some of it was getting really old 15 years, 18 years for this country that was highly aged burger, um, so, um, um.
Speaker 2:They decided to start collector's clubs and Beam started it in the late 60s and they started making decanters and they advertised them as collectibles. Save them, these are rare, they're individuals and people started buying them and putting them up on shelves and not drinking them. Okay, so some were drank, but others weren't. So the decanters were just getting the bourbon out. Exactly, it was moving product. It was moving it more, not because they were drinking it, because they were collecting, kind of like what we're at now. But you get the dumb. Much positive sort here is you're getting quality bourbon this high age, but you're getting a work of art.
Speaker 2:Look at this work of art and it's incredible to see these from back in the day that you just don't get anymore no no, no, but we are uh and we can talk about this later we are getting back into sort of a glut.
Speaker 2:Come on bourbon. Bourbon purchasing and drinking has slowed down a little bit compared to what's being currently distilled in any event. So I started getting into this back in about 2010. At the time, I just was interested in bourbon. I started as someone who wasn't tall enough to reach this desk at Family Affairs. I had family members who pushed scotch on me and I learned to drink scotch.
Speaker 2:But I really, really enjoy the sweetness, the flavor profile of bourbon, and so I started collecting harder-to-find regular distributed whiskeys and bourbons back then and finally came across a couple of decanters and I loved the taste. It was wonderful. Some of them were the same or better than what was on the shelf and they were cheaper for me to acquire. If you have a glass bottle, it's very easy to see whether the whiskey is clear, right. If you have a decanter, it's not, and if you have and it's also hard to tell exactly how full, is this right? So it spawns probably a huge, I guess, renaissance for many of us in this community to go out and look for these old decanters that are still in barns and in basements and all that stuff.
Speaker 1:So this would be somebody who would have purchased it back in the day for the artwork or for the. I got to have this one, compared to this one sitting next to me on the shelf, correct, but was never drinking it. And so now, 30, 40 years later, they're just sitting in people's homes. That's correct. That's correct.
Speaker 2:So, and what you see here on the table are all from one collection that I recently was able to acquire. Kind of an interesting story. There was an ad on Facebook and basically it said my dad had this collection, I don't know anything about it, what's it worth? How do I get rid of it? Was it on a bourbon page or was it just on a regular? Just on a regular Facebook marketplace page? Interesting, and I sent him a quick text message and he responded. I asked him where he was. He said he was in central Arkansas. I set him up here in northwest Arkansas not too far. In the meantime there's like 20 people trying to hit him up who live in California and New York and whatever, because this is very rare to find, and I offered to go down and just share my knowledge with him and help him figure out what the best distribution service is.
Speaker 1:You were doing the same thing, you would only go down and help them share knowledge.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I wouldn't have had any knowledge. No, knowledge. But not everyone that you found was a winner, no, and it was interesting. He had over 1,000 decanters and they were interesting. They interesting guy, very wealthy. He had died about four years ago. His wife died two years ago. The kids were trying to sell the house and the real estate agent said get rid of all this stuff. So they're gonna do that at my house. So I will, of course, not for another people. 40 years, hopefully not. So I went downstairs, they followed him to the basement and my jaw dropped.
Speaker 1:Oh you said did you keep a poker face or no? Not quite.
Speaker 2:I tried, but he had six shelves high all around the basement, every single wall, and they were packed in three and four deep. And then he had a back room and I'll show you a couple that I pulled out of the back room that um were all mint in the box like they had never come off the store shelves. Basically he was one of the senior people in the gym back uh, jim beam razorback collectors club um, which doesn't exist anymore. Um, but was an ark-based Jim Beam Collector's Society and he was also a senior member of a lot of other brands collectors clubs as well and he would buy three or four of every decanter he could find. One he would open with friends and two or three he put back.
Speaker 1:So in 34 years this will be Mallory and Kennedy, except the difference is you didn't share one with friends. They're all sitting there in your closet.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, it's okay. So I shared with them some of my knowledge and ultimately was able to. I told them I personally I buy these for the whiskey that's inside At the time, which is absolute opposite of how they were sold right, they were sold to be a collectible, to be worth a fortune. Now some of them are limited editions, some as small as 500 pieces for the entire country.
Speaker 1:Others are unlimited, but so some of these are valuable in the resale market and others are so-so no, nobody cares about the decanters anymore.
Speaker 2:Nobody cares. No, basically the people that care, unfortunately, are passing away. They're just like other things of our generation. Our kids don't care about right and we think they're cool and so the same thing. So now we have younger people that are getting into bourbon and whiskey and they are interested in the decanters for the product inside. So you can go on ebay if you want. Ebay does not allow you to sell with any liquid in it. It's got to be empty and you'll see most of them sell for 5 to 20 bucks there. There really is very little demand, okay, whereas so now this full matthew's girlfriend I don't know if this one's full, it is full.
Speaker 2:But if that one's full, it's just the cork. Oh wait, is that empty?
Speaker 1:oh you don't know the corks, the corks so you just broke the head off I didn't.
Speaker 2:No, no, is there anything in there?
Speaker 1:well, don't turn it yeah, yeah, oh well, you don't want that, then you can take it home.
Speaker 2:I don't care, you can have it, I will have it, you can. There's a cork here still.
Speaker 1:Oh, is it still? Yeah, full cork, then you're fine, it's not a leaker. It's not a leaker, okay, good. So if somebody was to find that on the secondary market, I know selling bourbon is illegal, I understand that.
Speaker 2:Okay, there is a trading groups that people that are into this we do work deals to share information, knowledge and occasionally whiskey I brick. No, those do pull out fairly easy. There's cork underneath most of them, so if it's not leaking, you're good. And you said you found some that were totally empty on the shelf. Yes, just evaporated. Consumption or evaporation, yeah, exactly. Well, I don't think there were consumption ones there, but there may have been Approximately a little.
Speaker 2:Approximately half of his thousand plus collection was empty and so I advised them to Don't throw out, right? I said, well, actually, I said I'll take them if you want them out because you want to sell the house. And they asked me what I'd do with them and I said probably put them in a dumpster because they're not worth much to me and they were a gas that Dad's collection would end up in a dumpster. So we talked about flea markets as an option, we talked about eBay as an option. We talked about some collectors' societies where there are still people that are interested, but not to expect much money. And then I took what I thought was 469 full decanters that don't leak and I don't buy ones that leak because that means that oxygen is entered into the canner and it's likely to have deteriorated in quality.
Speaker 2:But in the back room, the safe room, where everything was in boxes still as it came off the store shelves, there would be maybe three or four in a row. I pulled off the one that's right at the edge, the first one, and I was really shocked that it was empty, completely empty. They had evaporated. And then I pulled the one behind it and it maybe had half or three quarters full and the two that were furthest back totally full, and it took me a little while, a couple trips, to realize. So this is in a basement. The back walls were concrete block, so it was cooler back there and it was also the furnishing for the house, so heat was generated. The ones in front that had the heat evaporated and then they kept the ones behind from evaporating.
Speaker 2:Thank God there were ones behind. Yeah, absolutely. So I ended up acquiring about 600. And these are all lead-free. Well, yeah, I don't want to say all lead-free. There have been testing. Most do not have a significant amount of lead, almost everything. Some of the testing has shown minor lead levels, but they generally do not exceed the federal government's levels in drinking water, so you can drink these just like you drink in drinking water.
Speaker 1:So let's try one Sure, because I know Matt's excited, tell you what I mean.
Speaker 2:We're all good friends here and I'm a freaking kid in a candy store oh, I am too. I mean this is incredible. This is history, yeah, and anything that we're in any industry. A lot of history has left us right, but to now, this is living history, so we're going to start.
Speaker 1:Yeah, steve, okay, go, see, there we go, it's on the camera.
Speaker 2:Awesome. So that's a Lionstone 86 proof.
Speaker 1:So yeah, the label fell off, we can drink this.
Speaker 2:So Lionstone's no more. Lionstone is no more, but you told me something new yesterday, right when you were over the Lionstone's name has been taken by somebody else. Yes, but I'm not sure who it is. Okay, I was going to do a little research on it. But it's been acquired by somebody else and so it's possible it can come back. And so Lionstone today. This is eight year, eight year, yep 86. Proof Lionstone today is not available on store shelves. And Lionstone was what we call a non-distiller producer. Basically, they did not make their own whiskey. They acquired whiskey from other distilleries Contract distilling yeah, contract distilling, or it was a contract. They just took extra bottles.
Speaker 1:Or just walk in and buy.
Speaker 2:I have more books, yeah yeah, so you know I'm going to be crazy. You're going to think I'm crazy. No, be critical. I never thought you were crazy. Stone fruit right on the nose, Peach yeah, there is a lot of peach.
Speaker 1:There is a lot of citrus.
Speaker 2:Yes, a lot of citrus flavors in this. Wow, this is this and that. Look at that. It's almost like a red mahogany, yeah, the color for eight year, which is, which is a sign of really good bourbon. Yes, and unfortunately, lionstone gets no, they never heard of it, well, and therefore they don't. They're on the secondary market. They're pretty low because people don't know them, they don't have, yeah, what it is, I get a lot of cedar, a lot of leather Leather for sure.
Speaker 2:I get a lot of leather in this too. A little tobacco, that's before water, guys, this is just right out.
Speaker 1:And if you look at the legs on it, it holds the glass really well. Another sign of you see, like the sign of the oil on the side.
Speaker 2:I mean it's yeah, yeah, so this is from that decanter. It's actually from another decanter, it's from the Quail decanter.
Speaker 1:The.
Speaker 2:Quail decanter. Okay, yep, just the one, thank you. Yeah, we're already at 86. I'll take this one. I mean, this is history. Yeah, I'm glad that we could all form a community.
Speaker 1:To be able to do that like.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for coming and doing this. Well, we have more to try too. And again, if you're a friend that's not here today, you should be covered up. If he was here, he'd be all over this. Yeah, it's tasty. It's got a depth of flavor that we don't get today. You're exactly right, it's got, and so this is why I have moved to basically drinking only dusty whiskey. As a matter of fact, if anybody wants to follow me on Instagram, it's.
Speaker 1:DustyWhiskeyHunter. There we go. There's a shout out early in the sesh. Why not? I love it.
Speaker 2:Might as well take advantage of it. I love it. Please do as you get, okay, with those couple drops of water. That leather really popped, that licorice really popped, he's even more like a kid in a candy store.
Speaker 1:Now, yeah, I know this is very tasty. Is there a difference in the way this stuff was made? Is there a difference in the water they were using?
Speaker 2:There is a difference, so a lot of differences in technology that have evolved over time. Right, so in the old days they just pulled the water out from under the limestone in things in it that are considered harmful. Well, those things have flavor as well, so it adjusts the flavor. That's why there's more minerality in this.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, today's brewery.
Speaker 2:There's more minerality and it even has like a little bit of an earthy taste.
Speaker 1:And to compare it to wine, as you go to different places.
Speaker 2:This does have a little bit of a terroir effect if you get Dusty's from Maryland or Dusty's from Kentucky or Dusty's from Tennessee and it's not just bourbon, that's Dusty's. I also have a smaller collection of older vintage liqueurs and other liquors that would be in a bar, and part of what's happening today is there's a renaissance with bars that specifically make cocktails with vintage product and so they're At some point they're going to run out Like it's not, like there's an endless supply, right, they have a lot of people around the country.
Speaker 2:I rarely, but a lot of my friends that are fanatics about Dusty Whiskey and other product specifically go searching to sell to those restaurants Interesting. Yeah, supply and demand Exactly. So that was good, that thing's cool. Just kidding, there's a little cat in a tuxedo there Exactly.
Speaker 1:You've got a cat in a green dress next to you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you were asking me about how they're made differently. Yes, so water is one thing, Another, and the main part we talked earlier about how the cask, the wood, imparts the bulk of the flavor. Here's a top book if you need it. It's all oak right. All the staves and barrels are made from from american oak. In the old days they would either cut them all up and leave them outside cover under some roof for four years, three years, and let them dry out naturally, or did some kiln killed long-term drying. Today they are basically fire-blasted. So it obviously has a difference on the impact of the wood and the oak itself. If you look at a 2x4 that's used today in construction versus one from the 60s, you look at the end of the 2x4, you probably have five or six growth rings right in the old ones Well everyone wonders why wood rots so quick.
Speaker 2:Now, it's because it's young. Yes, it's not. It doesn't. It's not a hundred year old tree, there's. No, it's like you said, it's five or six years old, correct. And the soft is all. Yeah, and so two by four. Today, you Well, if you remember your high school biology, the xylem and phloem is what brought the nutrients to the top of the plant, these fountains, then trees. You see this as a home, on the houses that you renovate. Some of those old two-by-fours in those woods you can't get the nails out of them.
Speaker 1:No, they're hard.
Speaker 2:They're hard and you go. Okay, because I've seen it on the show where you look at these grains, how tight they were and mold multiple rings. They were darker inflow to the surface of the wood, color, correct, yeah, it just shows you how wood is changed. And those rings have sugars in them. So, as barrels sit in a rickhouse, when it gets cold in the winter, right, it all draws in, and when it gets hot in the summer, the whiskey that's in it expands and goes out into the woods and wood and pulls those sugars to make it sweet and give it flavor like we just had. And so old barrels taste better than new barrels. And we only use barrels once for bourbon, right by law, by law, yeah, and so that's another reason. So the water, the wood.
Speaker 2:There's another part today, and this doesn't go across all distilleries, but in the old days they all had their own yeast that they used to start the distillation process and most of the distilleries would keep that under lock and key and it had special characteristics that imparted into the whiskey. Today most distilleries not all, some still do that, but most use a generic yeast that they buy off the shelf. Interesting, fascinating, but I know, you know for a fact that yeast is a primary driver of flavor. You can use a wine yeast, but it completely changes the complexity of the spirit. So what are we drinking next? So this is the Old Crow. So that's. We want to do this one last, because that's the highest proof. This one is Old Ezra, which is 90. That's 86. It's 10 years, 86. So this is an Old Crow, chessie.
Speaker 1:Now, is there a reason why some of these are repackaged in bottles and some of them are going to still be?
Speaker 2:Yes, because once I open it okay, and this was just open last week okay, once I open it, I put it in a bottle, just because these quirks don't always go, come off well and I can't always get it back in the bottle. Got it okay? Okay, so what I do is I can and we're going to do that with this one. Oh, cool, okay, so everybody can see how we do that. Very nice, um, but this so. So I just put them in a safe bottle. Normally when it gets to this size, I move it down to one of the little bottles. I want as little oxygen in there to mix with the bourbon over time, so help yourself. So this is a totally different taste, really dark, almost like motor oil. It's 86, 10 years Now. Rumor has it that this was not made at Old Crow at the distillery. Nobody knows for sure. It was at that point. It was part of a National Distiller, ndp National Distillers Company, and there is discussion. Some people think it went to the old Bernheim Distillery.
Speaker 1:But very, very smell of it the National.
Speaker 2:Steelers morphed into, I believe, hiram Walker, then morphed into Allied to Mech, then morphed into present-day Beam Centauri and now it's called Centauri Global. So it's had changes. So this is a today. Crow is still a Jim Beam product, but Crow today is a low-bottom shelf. Yes, it is. This was a top shelf at the time. Old Crow used product, but Crow today is a low bottom shelf. Yes, it is, this was a top shelf. Yes, it was. Old Crow used to be the number one selling bourbon in the United States. So, just on the nose, complete difference. That color, again dark. You get this red. You get this red tint. It's almost like red mahogany, like a deep red mahogany you stated it earlier. Like motor oil. Yeah, this is that's how dark. This is right. What do you get out? What do you get when you smell this?
Speaker 2:it's hot, it's a little, it's not hot like a new bottle yeah but it's, but it's like it has a little bit of burn when you smell it. But it, but it doesn't get that in the taste when you drink it. It's not. I get big wood sugars, caramelized sugars, yeah it does. It's really sugary. It's almost like creme brulee on the nose yeah, creme brulee right out of the oven.
Speaker 1:Not the creme brulee that's been sitting out for a couple hours. It has to be right out of the oven.
Speaker 2:I've told you this before? All right, this is very leathery On the palate. It's very, very leathery, kind of all right meaty. It's very meaty. Yes, it's very meaty. There's a lot of depth and character here. You can't go wrong with any descriptor. You're going to say on this one, no, you can't. And it also has just a little bit of what we call a Kentucky hug. So you feel it going down your throat just a little bit, even though it's only 86 proof, which is pretty rare, yeah Right, normally you get those on the 110 and 120 proofs where it burns you on your way down. It's unique. I really like these, but they're very different from what you get in most bourbon today. So interesting.
Speaker 1:It's nothing at all like what you get in comparison. No, it's not even.
Speaker 2:It's not. It doesn't even taste like you're drinking, bro. I mean, we're talking, we're drinking history here, and this is when, again, I like how bourbon was king back then when these were all produced. But what's weird, like this has like a dry finish too.
Speaker 1:It does, it's weird, but it's good.
Speaker 2:Almost trannic, right. Yeah, I like when I have to chomp on it. Yeah, do one of that right. It dries. That's the definition of what a dusty is, because it's very dusty on the back of the back, exactly, yeah, so interesting marketing for this one. So each of these were sold as individual pieces, so you had to collect 32 of each color there's a dark and a light and you had to get you bought individually each of the 32 chess pieces and then you could buy a chess mat. It was basically a woven rug that you can put in your living room floor and play chess with your bourbon decanters.
Speaker 1:It's like this generation's version of the. Get the different letters on the blatant horse, the bee yes, exactly, so you'd go into somebody's home.
Speaker 2:Oh, there's a light pawn, let me have that, or the dark bishop, or whatever.
Speaker 1:And how often would they sell a new piece? They?
Speaker 2:were all done within about a two-year period, two to three-year period.
Speaker 1:So it's like, hey, the pawn is out. Everybody run to the store and go find the pawn, kind of thing.
Speaker 2:I don't know if that was the case or not or whether they all came in Most of the cases that I had. I bought several cases of these in the past and normally, you know, the case at that time were usually 12 bottles, so it was a mixed case with 12 different pieces.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it usually had two or three different pieces in one case, or chest pieces. You would have been all over this like back in the day. I think it's pretty cool. I like that kind of stuff it does.
Speaker 2:That does not look like a chest piece.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:Well, this is actually, I think this is the king. That's the king right there. That's the king. That is the king.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I love chess Anybody good. I'm not really good, but I'm okay. There's also a sweetness that comes with it with the tannic right. It's really interesting.
Speaker 1:I mean mean, the wood tannins here are striking. Well, given the age, that makes sense. Now, which one did you like better? Do you like the first one or the second one? I like the second one, I do too. Yeah, yeah, first one was good.
Speaker 2:This, this one was it's amazing I there are some people that think it's the best they've ever had. I'm not quite at that point, but it's certainly my top 10 as far as fresh cut vanilla bean. Like you get a vanilla bean and you slice it open and that's exactly what you get.
Speaker 1:I don't even know who you are anymore. Don't worry, the conversation doesn't end there. Stay tuned for part two coming next week.