The B Team Podcast
Talking all things Business, Bentonville, and Bourbon. Hosted by Josh Saffran, Matt Marrs, and Rob Nelson. New episodes every Thursday!
The B Team Podcast
Ep. 75 - Bottled-in-Bond Breakdown
A treasure hunt doesn't always require a map; sometimes, the greatest discoveries are hiding in plain sight on your local liquor store shelves. Alcoholic beverage expert Russ Kempton returns to the B-Team Podcast to guide Josh, Matt, and guest host Jim Corbett through a Bottled-in-Bond tasting that challenges perceptions and proves quality doesn't always correlate with price or scarcity.
The journey begins with a fascinating history lesson on the Bottled-in-Bond Act of 1897, a groundbreaking consumer protection measure championed by Colonel E.H. Taylor to combat dangerous distilling practices. This legislation established strict quality standards requiring to be the product of one distilling season, aged at least four years under government supervision, bottled at exactly 100 proof, and produced at a single distillery – creating what Russ calls "a brand of authenticity."
From the polarizing yet historically significant Mellow Corn ($15) to the surprisingly complex J.T.S. Brown ($20) and the leather-forward Old Grand Dad ($20), the team discovers remarkable quality in bottles many bourbon enthusiasts ignore while hunting allocated products. The tasting peaks with Old Pepper Bottled-in-Bond, drawing comparisons to much pricier options, and a rare Angel's Envy Bottled-in-Bond distillery exclusive that showcases rich wood tannins and exemplifies how distilleries test potential new expressions.
Throughout the discussion, Russ emphasizes the importance of evaluating spirits objectively: "You never taste with your heart." This reminder that perception often influences enjoyment more than actual quality resonates as the bourbon boom moderates and previously scarce bottles become more accessible. The episode offers a refreshing perspective for collectors and casual drinkers alike, while the thrill of finding rare bottles continues, some of the best bourbon experiences are waiting right on the regular shelf, no allocation required.
Take a break from the allocation chase and join us for a journey that might just change how you shop for whiskey. After all, as Russ pointedly asks about these overlooked gems: "What took you so long?"
Welcome to the B-Team Podcast. I am your host, josh Saffron, with my co-host, matt Morris and our permanent guest, rob Nelson. We're here every week to talk to you about all things Bentonville, bourbon and business the B-Team Podcast. Be here. Welcome to the B-Team Podcast. I'm your host, josh Saffron, with our co-host. Matt Morris and our new permanent guest, Jim Corbett. I would question the permanence. I'm just here filling in. No, you're super permanent because your picture's up on the screen. Yeah, I mean, yours is on the screen, your picture's there. There's no replacing Rob.
Speaker 3:It's official.
Speaker 1:There's no replacing Rob. I mean, he's one of one, but you are the new one.
Speaker 2:We'll see the chosen one.
Speaker 1:It's been a good run. We got a year and a half of him. Well, actually we had a year and a half of actual podcasts, but he's only here for like 30%. Yeah, like when my wife asks me how many you've been married, I go it's been three good years. Because we've been married seven, I go point point taken right three good years. Every good tricycle better be edited?
Speaker 2:yeah, he edits. That's why you just have to be careful what we say, because he doesn't edit our stuff.
Speaker 1:Every good tricycle needs a spare tire. I'm happy to be the spare tire when one of you three is sick. I'm happy to jump it it. It feels like Bobby's despair tire now.
Speaker 2:I know him and Josh. It's going to be pretty tense if he comes back. I'm looking forward to getting him to go this weekend. Me and Bobby may have to switch.
Speaker 3:I'll be around sir.
Speaker 1:Well, we're here every Thursday for all things Bentonville, business and bourbon, and today it's going to be heavy bourbon focused because we have the OG, the OG the man, the one, the legend.
Speaker 3:Right, it's been a while it has been. You know it's been this mid-July, right? So it's been a few months since I've been in this chair. It's good to be back, jim, good to see you.
Speaker 1:Is feel like I haven't been on a podcast. If I haven't been on a rust podcast, I gotta be honest, that's we feel the same way.
Speaker 2:Everyone, all my buddies, are like when's russ gonna come back on? I'm like you guys not watching us and they're like oh, I mean it's well, what's funny is, when you're not here, we're drinking bourbon.
Speaker 3:Well, we see, like tastes good stone fruit, little cracked vanilla, and there were like five-year-olds laughing like this Creme brulee, you might see that and get some of that this afternoon, of course. What did you have before this today? Did you have some pizza? What did you have before?
Speaker 1:this. We had a little gluten-free pizza which was quite tasty. Shout out to Stoic no not really spicy. No, Okay, we highlighted a gluten-free bar restaurant in downtown Bentonville Stoic Shout out, shout out to Stoic. Fantastic, have to try it. Fantastic, it was all really good.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 1:Everything is gluten-free. They moved across the street, that's right, and so they're in the spot and the food was great and the beers were great, and if we weren't told beforehand, we never would have known. No, never. That's a pleasant surprise, right? That's a pleasant surprise. Now, this is all gluten-free as well, right, of course.
Speaker 3:Okay, I mean, once you just fill it out, it's just this. And today it's all about Bottle Bond. We've talked about this for quite a while now and just to showcase what Bottle and Bond is all about and where it's been, where it's going, and we're in such a sweet spot right now there's more Bottle and Bonds on the shelf in northwest Arkansas and throughout the country than ever before, and it's just showing. We're kind of going back to our legacy of March of 1897 when the Bottle and Bond Act was created by the government.
Speaker 1:No, I was not born then, Matthew.
Speaker 3:He didn't look right. I got the look I knew it right?
Speaker 1:do you remember that job? Is that your birthday? Yeah, march of 1897. Yeah, so russ I and I'm I'm still new on this thing, so I refresh it for me. Abbreviated version bottled and bond versus high proof versus like. What are the key differentiators?
Speaker 3:So this is a key indicator. So here's an example when my, you know, we've been to Four Roses. So when we were at Four Roses we had their 100 proof Four Roses during the tasting, but that was not bottling bond. But all these today are bottling bond, so why wasn't that Four Roses? Or anytime you see 100 proof that does not have the designation bottling bond on the label, what does that mean and how do they take care of the brand during this process?
Speaker 3:So in March of 18, so, colonel Taylor, I'm so glad you're answering your own question because I was afraid you were going to pause. He went to conference with other distillers in the winter of 1897 to help Congress at the time, help police their industry, because there were distillers in kentucky, in that region of appalachia, that were blinding and killing their customers the way they were treating the alcohol after distillation. Some were. They were keeping methyl alcohol in the distillate to stretch out supply so they could make more money and they were masking it with tobacco and herbs and other things to get that methyl alcohol out. Well, you can't get that out, but what does methyl alcohol do to you over time?
Speaker 1:It makes you go blind.
Speaker 3:And kills you. Oh, all right, that's a bad marketing strategy. By the way, it is a bad marketing strategy. And so they went to Congress and they created the Bottle and Bond Act of 1890 or so, simply means at the time, because we're in scale. Now, today, we're like you know we're going to have old granddad from Jim Beam here in a minute where they're doing 1,000 barrels a day. You know, heaven Hill from Mellow and JTS Brown, you know they're not just doing 1,000 barrels of those a day, but they're just the whole distillery. They're distilling about 1,000 barrels a day. Well, so they've worked up to scale over time.
Speaker 3:Well, back in 1897, they were doing three or four barrels a day, if even that, and so it was very easy for them to fill a couple barrels and then a government agent, an excise man, would be at the distiller and they would clarify these two or three barrels are going to go to a bonded warehouse in Louisville or a government warehouse, and they were going to sit under lock and key by the government for four years in a bonded warehouse, for one distilling season, meaning from January to June, one distilling season, or July to December, the other part of the year of the distilling season, again, age of minimum of four years proof down to 100 proof. So every barrel is different. So sometimes the proof will be 115 when it comes out of the barrel, sometimes it's 105, whatever it might be. So there's that dilution formula that we've talked about to proof it down to 100 proof, and that goes to market. So is that's the bottle and bond act that was created for, basically for point of authenticity. He's like the chad gpt yeah, like a pdf.
Speaker 1:The cliff claven I was gonna say.
Speaker 2:but I do have a question because, like when we, when we talk about certain, when we talk about certain whiskeys or bourbons, like there's a sweet spot in every Rick house. Yes, so when you're at a Bottled and Bond, how do you like, do they can pick spots in there?
Speaker 3:or is it just a crapshoot when it goes in there? So here's an example. So let's do Mellow Corn. As we get into Mellow Corn, let's go ahead and start pouring that around. So it's a small brand from Heaven Hill. Heaven Hill has a. You know, we've been there, you know that's a large campus and they have well over 1.2 million barrels maturing on their campus in Mesa, right. And so this is a very small brand, Mellow Corn for their distillery, yeah. And so they'll only have this in one or two of their warehouses at a time. But there are those sweet spots in the warehouses.
Speaker 3:Again, we're not going to put it in the 9th, 10th floor of the warehouse because of that heat. We're going to do more of this, maybe in the middle floors for a minimum of four years Again. So this is a minimum of four years. Again, I can smell it from here that corn sweetness of this is our corn smells different whiskey. So corn whiskey in America can use new oak and you new years, new and used up. So we can use new oak and used oak for corn whiskey. So it's not started this is not a bourbon.
Speaker 3:This is a lot, so I thought whiskey. Only bourbon was is a whiskey, so I thought whiskey only bourbon was bottled in bond.
Speaker 2:No, the whiskey can be, we can do with rye.
Speaker 3:we can do wheat, okay, any distillate that has that cereal grain in it, you know so. But again, if it's uh, if it's say rittenhouse from heaven, hell, rittenhouse, uh, bottle bond, that's a minimum of 51% rye. So it still has to be that 51% rye, 51% corn. This is 80% corn and above. So that's sweet, isn't it? Yeah, I get, really I get sweet butter popcorn on the nose here. Yeah, yeah. I like it. It's about 15 bucks a bottle.
Speaker 2:It's a great value. Yeah, I mean, when you're a professional, this is what you drink, hey beer well, it's just what's good at the pack of short yeah in the morning josh, I take it you didn't love that I'm gonna do a four drop just to see I went to.
Speaker 1:I probably need to do a bigger but again, this is a corn whiskey.
Speaker 3:That again that new, that new oak and that used oak, but it's. All these today are a hundred proof and this was created. It tastes like about a buck thirty by heaven's hill in 1945, so this brand brands been around 80 years. This is an 80 year old brand that just people walk away from. Now I can see on your faces why you would walk away from it, but just it has this customer base out there.
Speaker 1:What's funny is our friend Matthew was just in Florida and sent us a picture of his lineup with his real friends in Florida, and then this is like a lot of people who don't live here in arkansas. Yeah, let off by mellow corn. This is it's. I have a question for you yes bring us back.
Speaker 1:So you're obviously a professional taste tester. You've been a judge at whiskey competitions. Yes, how do you differentiate what I personally like versus objectively measuring the qualities of the whiskey so that you grade it appropriately, Because I would imagine that for me that would be impossible. If I like it, I'm going to grade it high. What do you have to do? Going into it.
Speaker 3:He's got to be very just tunnel vision.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 3:And so when I'm tasting like you've heard me say this before, guys that when you taste spirits, beverage, alcohol, you never taste with your heart. So right now you're saying taste with your heart, you know, because you might not like it or you maybe had a bad experience with it. So how do I stay in that lane where I don't break out of it, where I'm not thinking about my heart on a brand? Because when you're a competition judge, you're blind tasting. We know the category might be high proof or high rye or malt category, single malt category, rye category. We know the category we're judging at the time, but we don't know the brands that we're judging. So it's all blinded. And so even though I might have an idea what one brand might be, I can't guide that with my heart. I have guided with my brain, my nose and my palate. That's where I'm going here, okay does that make sense?
Speaker 1:it does it. I guess. My tough thing is like have you ever given a higher score to a whiskey bourbon rye that you did not like as much as you liked a lower score one?
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's happened before.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it has. That's just human nature and that's your palate. And then another thing when you're judging, there's always at least two tables, or there's usually 30 judges, and we're all tasting, but we're not tasting everything. There's at least going to be two different tables that are going to taste all these brass. So there's a good guidepost of a score Okay, and you get palate fatigue. It's towards the end of the day and so maybe it was something I scored last year and I gave a gold medal to Jim at 9 o'clock in the morning because of palate fatigue. I might have to do that in bronze the next year.
Speaker 1:So you'd be like an East German judge in the afternoon and give a lower score, exactly Okay.
Speaker 3:Because it's palatine. I like it, and so this is JTS Brown. This is JTS Brown. This is the. You know JTS Brown and his stepbrother. They started. This is the precursor of Brown Foreman. Up to date, these guys started in 1855. Okay, so, hey, another famous brand that started in 1855, you know, my favorite bourbon from Heaven Hill is Henry McKenna bottle and bond Single barrel. You know it started in 1855 also, so Brown Foreman was incorporated in 1870. So this is about a $20 bottle. This in some states. It's not everywhere. I bought a case of this in Kentucky a couple years ago for $20 a bottle. Completely different than that mellow corn.
Speaker 1:Very different.
Speaker 3:Because now we're in bourbon, we're in the highlights of bourbon now, versus a corn whiskey, even though that's an 80% corn whiskey, used a new oak on the mellow corn. This is a minimum of 51% corn. Heaven Hill actually used a number three char, number four char on the barrel influence and again, this is a minimum of four years. So all these just have to know that we're trying, we're four years minimum and that's part of the bottle and bond act that I talked about earlier. But again, from one distilling season, did you guys like this one?
Speaker 2:I like this one very much. Yeah, I like this, but well, it would be my preference.
Speaker 1:If you call mellow shit, I don't know about that Potent gasoline it wasn't mellow.
Speaker 2:I think that's why Russ started us with that one.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, we're walking up that ladder of progression.
Speaker 3:Yeah, this would be good in an old-fashioned I was just going to say, very mixable, yeah, yeah, that's a, I'd drink that. Yeah, I would too, when I was a young sales rep in Austin back in the day selling whiskey and wine. You know, the big thing back then in the 80s was you wanted to get the well business because everyone was going to come in and ask for bourbon and water. People weren't asking for brand premium back in the 80s like they are today. So well, whiskey was a big thing and so we were paid nicely to make sure that we had all the wells in town, because that's what you want. You want the guy, the lady want bourbon and water, scotch and water, whatever it might be.
Speaker 3:And I had JTS Brown in every major well in Austin and I became a very big fan of it at the time. And then when I found several years ago that jts brun had their bottle of bond but it was not available here in arkansas, you know, I had a friend send me a case from uh, from kentucky. But yeah, it's actually. It's probably cost as much to ship it than it did for me actually to buy the product. Yeah, so what do you think of this with the water without, without With?
Speaker 2:I thought it was good both ways. I did too Well. I like that one very much. Yeah, I think it was Like you said. I think it's a great mixer. I would drink it regular. I don't think it's terrible, it's good. I think a lot of us get stuck on the price, and we've talked about this a lot. The price has nothing to do with really. It may sometimes, but it's not like if you spend $100, it's going to be better than this $20 one in my opinion.
Speaker 3:Well, I mean, we could put EH Taylor Bottle Bond here and we could put Henry.
Speaker 2:Montana in here.
Speaker 3:Today it was more about value. And just to showcase some things, that when the consumer walks into a package store and maybe they're looking for this and they've never seen it, and they go, hey, maybe I'll take a chance on it Again. The four of us are not tied to brands at all.
Speaker 3:I all take a chance on again. We're not. The four of us are not tied to brands, not at all. I'm just taught, I'm just tired of the experience that I'm going to give you guys and then, and then the josh is kind of tied to thousand oh yeah, we are shout out to lisa, we all are tied to
Speaker 2:bt in a big, positive way for various reasons.
Speaker 3:we get this, you know. They've been very good to us, yes, and they will continue, because I think we're good for them too. So it's a great partnership that we have with them. Very much so, all right, which one's?
Speaker 1:next. So we're going to do Old Granddad, because the next one's going to be my favorite, without a doubt. Why do you say that? Because Matt had to pay for it. Oh.
Speaker 2:Well, russ had to pay for these.
Speaker 1:Well, russ is, when you pay for something, it's a little different than Russ paying for it.
Speaker 2:Well, we've got to see where that opens. So you know we tried the. We were all big fans of the old Granddad 16. Yes, and you know, until six months or a year ago you couldn't find any old Granddad on the shelf. Back on the shelf, and I'm excited to try that. I haven't ever tried just the OG.
Speaker 3:Did you try the 16, granddad 61. You know we bought some in Kentucky last year, but did you and these guys share any of it?
Speaker 1:No, they don't share anything. I thought we had it over at Rob's. The last time I hosted. I think we had it. It was good. Old Grandad 12.
Speaker 3:So Old Grandad part of so you know Mellicorn and JTS Brown, part of Heaven Hill today. So Old Grandad, part of Jim Beam, we'll you know today's Centauri Global. And if you look at the, if you look at this fine gentleman on the label here, that is Basil Hayden. So Old Grandad is the name because the grandson named the brand in his granddad's honor, old Grandad. And the brand started, was developed in 1840. That one's good. So this brand's been around since 1840. Price on the shelf Easily accessible, ballpark around, right around that $20 sweet spot $20 for the bottle.
Speaker 2:See, for $20 for that. That's a great. That's a great that I would drink all the time. Yeah, that's great. That's really good, or on the rocks, or whatever.
Speaker 1:We'll have to put some in your locker. Yeah, you can put these in in your locker. Yeah, they go with you guys. Whoa, okay, I'm gonna take the old grand I get.
Speaker 3:I get a lot of big leather and cedar on this, yeah.
Speaker 2:I get like the first two.
Speaker 3:I didn't rate them this really has a lot of backbone, got a nice skeletal structure to it. Does not taste like a minimum four-year bourbon.
Speaker 2:That one's tasty. Did you try it with any water?
Speaker 3:Again, this is a thing that we talk about all the time, whether it be just with the guys or on the podcast. This is great. You just don't know what you're missing if you just walk away from these brands that you've been told your whole life that they're. You know what? Because that's your heart telling you, because you've had your buddies say, oh, you don't like it, you're not going to like it. But until you try that at $20 $20, yeah.
Speaker 3:Again, another good Manhattan old-fashioned. Another good cocktail whiskey, bourbon. It's got a lot of good flavor on the back end.
Speaker 1:It does. The water really helps it.
Speaker 2:I mean, I was going to say leather as well. See, for me, I think it's better without the water On this one, but you liked it without the water.
Speaker 1:I thought it was better. Good, I'm with you on that, so you just added water to mine.
Speaker 3:I don't like it as much as I liked it straight. So I was. You know, I've been out and about this week. You know the various package stores, and it's been down the street here, it's been over here, uh, you know, at anchor. I've seen it at mackadoodles, uh, so I've it's out. You know it's out and about where, like you said a couple years ago, it's not on the shelf at all and I think what's really helped the brand is people going. I'm going to revisit granddad, old granddad now, because they tried the 16 year old. They had an opportunity to try that 200 bottle of granddad 16 and then they go back. You know what the brand's not bad? Because again, people walk away from things that they'll know or they've been told their whole life that it's. You know what the brand's not bad? Because again, people walk away from things that they'll know or they've been told their whole life that it's. You know what it's shot. Bobby loved the old, great.
Speaker 2:Well, and when you put it into perspective, just like you did, the 16 I thought was great, but it wasn't 20 times better than that, because this is 20 bucks and the other one was 200 bucks.
Speaker 1:And just to set the record straight, I didn't realize it was 200, when they definitely did not share with me. No, matt shared that with us jim's a big remus fan.
Speaker 1:I love remus, my favorite. We should have brought some so he could have told you all about it. Well, I've talked to him about this before, but I think the remus Repeal Reserve 5 is my single favorite bourbon I've ever drank. Yeah, he was a bootlegger. I love it. It makes me feel like a badass. That's probably why he likes it. I'm not going to lie. Yeah, it makes me feel like a little bit of a George Remus he was a bootlegger A little bit of.
Speaker 1:Where did your gold chain coin go? Where did the chain go?
Speaker 3:The chain was last week you could be dressed like if you put his top hat, his big old suit and tie and big old sport coat on you'll exactly like him.
Speaker 1:My Halloween is set up. You can send me a picture of old George Remus and I'm in there. It feels like that's your Halloween party this year at your house. It'll be my Halloween costume for the rest of my life, hosted at the Saffron House.
Speaker 3:I'm looking forward to it, yeah.
Speaker 2:I don't know if everyone knows, but Josh got a new ice bath at his house. Oh my God. I mean he's wanting to invite people over to switch out of it. It's just a single hole. It's a single. I want to get in it first if we're going to do that.
Speaker 1:Did you not laugh when we saw that video? That's another day, another podcast. Suffice to say that, yes, josh does have a place. He can swim in his backyard now and he let us all know about it.
Speaker 2:That's it. I'm inviting myself, it was a flex for sure.
Speaker 1:These guys have these massive, beautiful outdoor spaces and I, of course, you know I have six kids. I can't afford any of this stuff. I got a little private one-person bathtub in my backyard so I was saying you guys want to come over and sit in an ice bath with me? That's it. I can't afford, like the booze that. They have To be clear. He showed us the ice bath. He never invited us over. That is not true. He invited us over. That is not true. He did not invite us over to swim in it. No, Also true. You don't swim in it, you sit in it. You sit and shiver, Regardless, let's get back to the ready bits.
Speaker 1:This is going to be my favorite, without a doubt.
Speaker 2:I've never had pepper, so Russ was telling us a little bit.
Speaker 1:Now, I've had the James pepper, but I haven't had this pepper. This is the brother or this?
Speaker 3:This is old Current day. Woodford Reserve sits on the old Elijah Pepper Distillery in Versailles, kentucky, and this is really close to it. And look at that color. Looks like the mellow cord, first of all. That looks like fresh cut tobacco on that color that that's.
Speaker 1:It's pretty dark mahogany. It's pretty dark right there.
Speaker 3:I'll agree with that again, minimum of four years. That I don't see an a statement on here, but it certainly to me tastes. Do you remember the ballpark price on this, matt Matt?
Speaker 2:No, I don't.
Speaker 1:If it's for us, it's like $49.
Speaker 2:I think it was like $6. I didn't know you were like this. Did you get it here? Yeah?
Speaker 1:No, I knew, because Russ brought the other ones. Matt brought this one, matt brought this one.
Speaker 3:Oh, wow, this really reminds me Licorice. It reminds me of EH Taylor. It does a little bit. Got that black licorice. It's got a little bit of that creme brulee. It's got a little bit of that fresh cut vanilla bean that I really like.
Speaker 1:It would mean a lot more to me if Matt would once disagree with you, Russ.
Speaker 2:You can't disagree with me, Pastor.
Speaker 1:Step out there, be confident in your own.
Speaker 2:Pumpkin spice. Did you get any stone fruit in there?
Speaker 3:No pumpkin spice, because this is American oak. Now maybe a little bit of that spice in European oak.
Speaker 2:What I like about it is the finish has that little heat on the finish.
Speaker 3:It gives you that Kentucky kiss it does.
Speaker 1:A new Russism. That's a new one. A new Russism. You ever had a Kentucky kiss? See if I can get one from Emily tonight. I'm looking up Urban Dictionary right now. Hold on See if I can get one from.
Speaker 3:Emily, tonight I'm looking up Urban Dictionary right now. It's 95 degrees here today and it is intense for the temperature outside. I really like this. I haven't had pepper in a long time, but it is really good, so is it an old brand. Yeah, it was an old brand. Yes, resurrected. And what's great about this? Today, you know, the bourbon boom has slowed down a little bit.
Speaker 3:There's more availability today than there was, you know, during the pandemic. So to see Pepper come back and even to see Granddad doing what they're doing right now and it's good to see the suburban consumer has been so frustrated for so long that they're finally starting to see some brands come back Now. When I go back to Texas to do my events now, I'm starting to see Colonel Taylor bottle and bottle on the shelf and I go. This is on the shelf in Texas again and there's a limited allocation, one per customer. You know, I was in Memphis a couple weeks ago. They had at Buster's. If you go to Memphis, you got to go to Buster's, okay, but they had Blaine's on the shelf. They had Earl Taylor on the shelf. These are all prices, yeah.
Speaker 1:Retail price.
Speaker 3:They were all a suggested retail price Road trip. Yeah, and I've got a friend that lives right down the street from there. In fact, I just told him, my buddy. I went to UT with my goddaughter who lives in Mexico City. He lives a couple minutes down from that bus route.
Speaker 3:So every time I go to Memphis we go in there and Treat yourselves like kings. Oh, it's just, you walk in, you go right across the board. In West Memphis you're not going to find this stuff, but inside Memphis, at Buster's, that was there, and so Colonel Taylor was where it should be. So anyway, my point is finally, after all, this time now we're going to be able to find all of our favorites in the next couple of years I think more and more are coming out. But when you're starting to see some more Blantons available, some more Colonel Taylor, some more Eagle Rare from BT on the shelf, that's really good news for the average consumer that's been in this space for so long Because we've been in this space where it remembers the outliers from outside that space that thought bourbon was cool and they came in and became the bourbon bullies and the bourbon hounds that were hoarding everything.
Speaker 1:Somebody just said on Facebook I don't know if it's true or not that at McAdoodles and Jane that they have a lot of the new Sazerac allocated stuff behind the counter and if you spend $50 on other things you can buy one of those. Really, mcadoodles and Jane, yeah. So I was like, well, one is out, which again that's Macadam's and Jane, yeah, yeah. So I was like, well, all right, well, one is out. I mean, should you have to spend 50 to get it? That's a whole other debate, but the fact that they have it accessible for people, and 50 bucks you get a bottle of wine. Buy a couple of bottle and bond Two and a half bottles of Mellow Corn you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and buy some Dilted and then get my Relocate it A road trip. I think I've had the James Pepper Tell me what Same related. What's the deal?
Speaker 3:Yes, it's related, but I haven't seen. I can't believe you found this brand. I've been looking for it. Where'd you find it, matthew?
Speaker 2:I don't remember, but I liked the name and I'd seen the pepper. But a? I liked the name and I'd seen the pepper, but a lot of times. If it's brands that I don't really know that much about, it helps me buy it if it says Bottled and Bond, because, again, I know that it's at least four years old and it's not.
Speaker 3:It's a brand of authenticity. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I think the Bottled and Bond kind of makes it more solid. It's got the rust stamp of approval yeah.
Speaker 2:You're also a big fan of salt and pepper, so you thought that this would be good.
Speaker 1:I actually did like salt and pepper, so Elijah Pepper, elijah Pepper distillery, not to be confused with salt, and pepper.
Speaker 3:That's where Woodford is today, okay, and Versailles, in fact. We do need to talk about a road trip.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we do. It's coming up Bobby's out. It's coming up Bobby's out.
Speaker 3:It's too late for this year. Bobby's out, we're ahead. It's too late for this year because my fall is covered up. Yeah, but let's have another trip in the spring. Listen, you guys can go without me.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:No, who'd mule everything back.
Speaker 1:Yeah, who would be the?
Speaker 2:guest. I mean, the longer we wait, the more they'll have.
Speaker 3:I'm going up for the Texas-Kentucky game. I'm taking a group on the Bourbon Trail the Friday before the Texas-Kentucky game.
Speaker 1:If Josh treats to the trip, I'd count as a hosting.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Out, so we're all having it Now. Jim, I know you haven't had this. We got this at the distillery in.
Speaker 1:September. Well then, you're right, no this was distillery release, only.
Speaker 3:This is their first. Angels and Envy this is their first release. That is not a wood finish, Not a wood finish. So Angels Envy Portwood finish.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:After a straight bourbon whiskey minimum of four years in they finish it in Portwood barrels from Portugal. Their Angel's NB Caribbean cask rye is finished in aged rum barrels in the Caribbean. Okay, that happened to be Angel's NB rye. They shipped them to Bacardi because Bacardi owns Aces NB, so it's.
Speaker 2:Bacardi aged rum. He's got that.
Speaker 3:You got to do it, man, you know what?
Speaker 2:you're down to. So how do they know? So question Okay, it says it's cask strength, but how do you know that it's exactly 100 proof when they take it out of the?
Speaker 3:There's a gas temperature. There's a mechanism, a psychometer, that tells you the proof.
Speaker 2:Because I thought it would come out at a random amount. And then they add water to make it up. Well, what?
Speaker 3:they'll do if I'm dumping 10 barrels or 20 barrels or 30 barrels.
Speaker 2:Some will be 120, some will be 90.
Speaker 3:And then we're proofing for that formula. So, there's that mathematical formula. It's an algebra equation that everyone's going to go to sleep on.
Speaker 2:Okay, and that is where, depending on where it's in the rickhouse, it could be 90 or it could be 120.
Speaker 3:We could have like when we're at beam right.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:In September you could have those beam barrels right next to each other and they could be a little bit different, Because maybe the warehouseman put a couple of those barrels that we're goofing around with two weeks ago, but some next to it were in there for two years and they're completely different from that proof point. Because, again, the proof entry point is a minimum of 125 proof after it's been distilled to 160 proof.
Speaker 1:Remind me, this one was expensive and it's only in a 375, right.
Speaker 3:So this I just looked at it a minute ago, this was like 50 bucks, this was 58.
Speaker 1:For a 375. For a 375,. Yeah, this is I remember loving. I think I have a. Do you buy a bottle of this?
Speaker 2:I think we all got some.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you didn't get one for me.
Speaker 3:Well, that's.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's good. That's really good when you get that out of Russ, that's like I'm very bullish on Angel's Envy on everything they've done.
Speaker 3:I'm just so happy that they decided to come out with a bottle of Bond that's just 100% American oak, without any wood finishes to it.
Speaker 1:But Russ, why would they only do it in this size and why would this be distillery only? Okay, good question, thank you.
Speaker 3:That's why I asked you listen, because this is, this is like, this is the same premise of duty free. So distilleries well, around the world they will have limited releases at the distillery or limited expressions at duty free, to kind of a guiding from a sales or market standpoint to say if these brands can sell it duty free, maybe we have a new expression that we can have a line extension for in the marketplace. Same thing with with the visitor center. That's why they did a half bottle of visitor center at 58, because think about that, you're still a young distillery angels envy, relatively speaking, and you don't want that consumer walking out a sticker shot about 116 or 120 dollars on a brand that they may have not been a new expression, they hadn't tried before. So 58 is a perceived good value to 375 and then over time this should be a line extension on the shelf. Because remember when we were there in September they had their other line extension on the shelf. Because remember when we were there in September they had their other line extension.
Speaker 1:Triple O, yeah, triple O. So I've had that and it is wonderful, one of my favorites it is.
Speaker 3:And so this is kind of guided by sales and marketing and availability too, and I really enjoy this. Again, this is my first experience. I held this back since September. Did we, chuck? Do we try this at them? We did. We tried it in the tasty. Yeah, when those guys in the corner were you trying to hire me? If those guys would ask for party guys?
Speaker 1:yeah, I think, angels, and we should hire you after. That is a really. This is good. That means Slightly better than the mellow corn. The mellow corn is something to offer.
Speaker 3:I really get those big, big wood sugars, let me guess.
Speaker 1:I got a lot of tannins. I got a lot of those wood tannins.
Speaker 3:The water really suppressed those wood tannins, just those couple drops of water.
Speaker 2:The water made it worse for me.
Speaker 3:Water usually does that with you. I don't know why it is.
Speaker 1:I don't usually like it. Did the water suppress your tannins? I don't even know what a tannin is.
Speaker 2:It certainly changed. Yeah, all good, they were all good, except for the first two. The first one really.
Speaker 1:The first one was very different. I thought the rest were good. I'm not terribly picky. I would drink any one of them, yeah.
Speaker 3:But that's why we started with Mellow. That's why we didn't end with Mellow, we started there.
Speaker 1:Well, it's interesting. Going back to your earlier point, none of these are allocated. I mean, the Angel's Enemy is a separate thing. You only had the distillery, the Old Pepper, on the shelf. Where was it sitting, do you remember? I'm going to say around 75. But I don't know if it's not one of those. That's because people walk past the shelf immediately right. You walk right past the aisle and you're looking for what's on the allocated shelf, what's special, correct. Nobody's looking at these things. And this is why I like doing these tastings, because, like I wouldn't have bought this, because it wasn't cool, like you know what, I would drink the Old Pepper, I would drink the Jazz Brown, I would drink these some straight, some in a mixed drink, but I don't normally think to buy these.
Speaker 2:I don't normally think to buy these, right.
Speaker 1:I mean, I think that Mellicorn would look good in a gent's place that's in the anti-VIP room.
Speaker 3:I think you need to present that to Bart Nelson.
Speaker 2:Yeah, me too. Oh, that's what it gets that thing will be gone within a week. You take it in there.
Speaker 1:You tell Bobby this is the new one-of-one limited edition. Yeah, Like he can't find anywhere. Russ wanted to take it back with him, but we snuck it under the table.
Speaker 3:Perfect. Oh yeah, it fits his descriptive perfectly.
Speaker 2:Velo Velo Rob.
Speaker 3:Velo Corn I like that.
Speaker 1:Russ, thank you for coming in. Always a pleasure, Always great to be here guys, we need to have you in more often, because when Matt and Bobby and now Jim and I talk about bourbon, it's not the same, because we don't know what we're talking about.
Speaker 3:I'm here. I'm going to Minnesota next week to see the youngest daughter. I'm here quite a bit late month. I know you're busy late month, but early August let's do a couple podcasts early August.
Speaker 2:We can always do them without Josh. We have to.
Speaker 1:Well, we can have Matt bring in the lineup that he had for his buddies in Florida.
Speaker 3:That'd be a good lineup.
Speaker 1:That was a good lineup. I don't even know what it was. What was it? I got ghosted on that text. It was EH Taylor. It was Elmer T Lee, I think. I think so.
Speaker 3:It was stuff.
Speaker 1:I've never seen from Matt here In Northwest Arkansas. The thing that's impressive to me about Rustin Is that obviously he knows more about bourbon Than three of us know. He's forgotten more about bourbon than the three of us know, but he's done Tequila tastings for us. He knows so much about so much Wines. Obviously as well For people who are like you have a website right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, here's the company name, speaking in Grapes and Grains, and the website is speakingingrapesandgrainscom, and you can see my bio, all my relative information, my experience and all the events that I do, and I think I do about 16 different journeys. Everything I do is called a journey. So a journey through America for Bergen Rye, a journey through Scotland, a journey through Ireland Everything I do is a journey and it also comes with that journey that you saw in the tequila event that I did at your house in December. It's all about that new discovery, like today was new.
Speaker 2:We went on a journey.
Speaker 1:It was quite a journey. Shout out to the Irish goodbyes.
Speaker 2:I left before the real party. Shout out to Corey, are you?
Speaker 1:there. She passed out in the corner.
Speaker 3:It's just like and Phil and I talk about this all the time too you know, we tried these really five nice brands this afternoon. Now, they weren't all five, weren't for all of us, some liked some, some didn't like the other, but again, it's one of these brands. You find one of these. You walk by the package store, you walk by these five or 10, 15 times in your life maybe saw it on a cocktail list, your favorite joint, and then you finally had it. Today you say you know what I really liked that. But what took me so long? That's the thing. What took you so long? Because we're jaded, because social media jades us Everyday. Buddies jade us.
Speaker 2:Weird as hell. Oh, no, no, no.
Speaker 3:That's what's fun to go into Again. I was at McAdoodles this week and I was at Anchor and just picked up some stuff up and I see these guys in the aisle Still today, july of 2025, this isn't the pandemic anymore. People are walking in, they can't find their and they kind of throw a little fit that they can't find, but they won't spend a dime in that store. They do go in the bourbon section. They can't find what they do, they leave, they don't spend a dime, they don't say hi to the manager, they don't ask them a question. Well, that manager's not going to give them any allocated credit if they're not spending a dime. We all know that this is all about relationships.
Speaker 1:It's 100% right and Russ is super busy. He's doing for me at the end of the month he's doing a Japanese versus American whiskey tasting. It's going to be fun.
Speaker 3:Invites didn't come yet I mean we'll still work it through.
Speaker 2:I was going to say that. I was going to say that I'm worried about that one.
Speaker 1:I look forward to attending. If Rob can't make it, is this going to be at your house? No, no, no, your house. No, no, no, no. Of course it's not. I knew that I'm actually going to host it at Jim's house.
Speaker 3:So you had the honor. Plausible yeah, we all said good.
Speaker 1:All right, Thank you Russ.
Speaker 3:Always a pleasure. Hey, Jim, good seeing you. Josh and Matt, it's always a pleasure and we'll see you soon. I can't wait.
Speaker 1:Russ amazing.